Back On The Mountain - Finding Your Joy On The Slopes With Sarah Gilbertson

In this episode of Unshrinkable Midlife Moves, I’m joined by therapeutic ski coach  and instructor, Sarah Gilbertson to explore what it really means to start or return to skiing in midlife.

From skiing after 40 and rebuilding confidence on the slopes, to navigating fear, fitness, injury and menopause, Sarah shares how you can become confident and why midlife women deserve to take up space on the slopes.

In this episode you'll learn:

•  why skiing can feel different in midlife 
•  about the role of the nervous system when skiing
•  the stereotypes women face in skiing after 40 and how to tackle it
•  how fitness, balance and strength can transform your skiing experience 
•  the importance finding the right people to ski with 

Whether you ski, dream of learning, or simply want inspiration to reconnect with movement and challenge yourself again, this episode is filled with insight, and encouragement. This conversation is for you.

Find out more about Sarah at www.flourishwell.coach

Follow the podcast on Instagram:  @unshrinkablemidlfemoves

Find out more about Onika on Instagram: @lifeopenedup

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

What if the sport you were told was too dangerous, too expensive, or frankly just too late for you was actually the one thing that could bring you back to yourself. Today's guest is Sarah Gilbertson, therapeutic coach, Pilates teacher, Nordic walker, ex polo player, and lifelong skier. Sarah works with midlife women who want to get on skis or get back on them, and she does it in a way that most coaches don't. But here's the thing Sarah knows from her own experience. Menopause, back surgery, and a decade longer, these aren't excuses. They're the actual terrain. And no traditional coaching framework was built for them. In this conversation, we talk about the stereotypes that still haunt women on the mountain, why your ski instructor might be unknowingly holding you back, the surprising fitness work that makes the biggest difference before you even click into your boots, and what it really means to ask yourself how you want skiing to feel, not just whether you want or can still do it. This is for every woman who has looked at a mountain and felt excitement and fear in the same breath, which, if you are Sarah, is exactly where it starts. Hi Sarah, lovely to see you today. How are you? I'm good, thank you. Lovely to see you too. So today you are going to talk to us about your experience and background in skiing as well as how you marry skiing with some other stuff. But before we get into it today, tell us a bit about yourself. I'm Sarah and I live in the beautiful Peak District, surrounded by lovely hills, not mountains. So the skiing is not done in the Peak District. Live in a very small, quiet area with my husband and two German Shepherd rescue dogs. So I have a couple of things that I do right now. But my main job is I'm a therapist and I work with midlife women. And my primary focus is working with people who either want to start skiing, have skied before or had an interruption, want to get back into it, but they've lost the love of it and want to understand more about what on the surface looks like fear or a loss of confidence. The word we all use is I just, you know, don't feel confident anymore, and especially at this time in life. So because of my background, because of my lived experience, that's where my therapeutic coaching took me. So before we get into it, tell us a bit about your movement journey up until this point, how you got into skiing and if you do anything else. Okay. So gosh, skiing, I was so lucky. My dad had been and was slightly obsessed about skiing. He got married a little bit later by standards, and he'd had a good old time going on his holidays, skiing year after year. Then got married, had kids. I'm one of four. My dad basically wanted to keep doing the stuff that he loved doing. And it got a little bit tricky because it's an expensive sport. But some of my earliest holiday memories are ski ones, which is just amazing. But he'd take us all, be it by coach, to the cheapest places he could find. But we'd we'd ski and we'd have lessons, he'd teach us a bit and he'd take us out skiing as well. So he loved skiing. He wanted to keep skiing. And so we got ski holidays as well. And then as we got older and more of us wanted to ski, skiing was the main holiday, and everything else was sort of secondary to that. So ski holidays were always like the big holiday, if you like. And do you do anything else or is it mainly skiing in terms of movement? So skiing's the thing that I've probably done for the longest period in my life. It's been the consistent thing that I might have had breaks from, but I've come back to. And along the way, I mean any and all movements, be it sport or trying things. I've I mean the things I've done. I I teach Pilates right now as well. I've done yoga, I have run. I can't run these days. I also Nordic walk. So when I couldn't run anymore, I took up Nordic walking. That basically think of it uh as like dryland cross-country skiing. So you've got the poles, the longer trekking poles, but you've got that beautiful diagonal stride, and you can get up a real high heart rate on it. You can really put some pace onto it. You not quite the running buzz that I'm sure you understand, but it's as close as I can get it without skiing or horse riding. I like that kick, that adrenaline, and that speed. And running used to do it for me for a short period of time. I can't do that anymore. So I've just found other things. I swim a little bit. I had adult swim lessons not so long ago to learn how to do front crawl because I was fed up with looking like I was basically wrestling a shark in the water every time I went in and I climb, I boulder primarily, I climb a little bit. So yeah, movement, doing stuff. That's very much my default. I try and be active as much as possible and I build other stuff around it. That is such a wide variety of movement types. I love it. And horse riding. So tell us about that. Did you do that when you were younger? You still do that? When I was younger, we had family that had a small farm and they had uh a livery there. So we were able to get access, if you like, to ponies to ride. So we had ponies to ride when we were younger. Again, you don't realise how lucky it is to have that. I grew up sort of near Liverpool, but this was sort of one of the little villages up at the coast there, and it was fantastic. And I again had a period of time. I fall down rabbit holes quite often and think I should try things. So I did a stint playing polo, but did a couple of years of that hiring the horses, I hastened to add, and a friend and I got really into it. We were single, living in Cambridge, had good jobs, and we were like, oh, we should really give this a go. This looks brilliant fun. So we had a go at that and spent a couple of years just learning to play polo. And I was living in Newmarket near Cambridge at the time and thought, you know what, I need a little bit more. So I went to a local stables, racing stables in Newmarket, and asked if they needed anyone to ride out horses for free. And he looked at me and said, Well, you look like you've eaten a few too many donuts, but you'll do. So total Yorkshire answer. I mean, you look at jockeys, I'm no jockey in Bill, but I took it as it was meant, which is a bit of cheeky banter, didn't take a front, and I was able to ride out on the older horses and had a few stints on Saturdays, getting up at stupid o'clock outside my normal job and had a go at going down the gallops on an ex racehorse, which is I did it a few times, but yeah, it's probably as close to the edge as feeling wildly out of control as I think I've ever been. And it kind of got a bit giddy on it for a while, and then the giddiness and excitement tipped over into language and expletives, and you know what, I've got enough going on. I probably don't need to be doing this as well. So I stopped. It was all good. But no, I know we're not here to talk about that, but that just is so fascinating for me. Just the whole idea of whole of playing. How did you find it? Was it something that was easy to learn? Was it something that you picked up through practice because you got comfortable at the speed? I'm fascinated. I mean, if I could, I'd still probably be having a go right now. You soon get into big money because for competitions, you can't just have one horse because they're only allowed to play for certain amounts of time. Didn't do that. So, for the sake of argument, if you had you know four parts to your game, one horse would only be allowed to do two because it's so intense for them as well. So you can soon see how it gets into crazy expensive territory to be able to do it if you're playing matches. Where I was living, they had this local farm, and a couple of the guys were offering polo lessons. They were amateur polo players and they had some higher ponies that you could hire. So my friend and I used to do lessons together and then we'd and hire ponies for the fun matches and maybe just play half a game. But if you can ride and have the basic skills, then you're basically just learning to ride with one hand on the reins. So you're reigning left to right as you would sort of western style, and you've got your hand free with the polo mallet, and you're learning to swing it-handed, right-handed, you know, sort of forwards or backwards, passing, go. But also the trickiest bit, I think, of it, is bringing your mallet across. So you think about the weight. If you take it from your right side across your body to your left side and think about that diagonal rotation you've got to do, and then you've got to have the precision with the mallet to swing it, it doesn't, you know, clip the horse, clip somebody else, you know, or go wrong. So that's probably the trickiest part of it. And it's speed, and when you've got a bit of competitiveness about you and you're just caught up in it a little bit, yeah, it can really hook you quite fast. I can imagine. Do you know? This is what I love having these conversations. We start talking about one thing and we end up talking about a different type of movement. And I think many of us will learn, because I've just learned something about polo that I didn't know. So thank you for that. And onto the topic of the day, the skiing. So I discovered you, I can't remember if I was specifically looking for somebody to talk about skiing or if I had come across you, because skiing is very close to my heart, and it's something that I rediscovered and returned to in 22 after COVID. And it's something I had done at school absolutely loved, and just stopped doing because I didn't have anybody to go with me. And when I went back for the first time, I traveled with my brother. It was like coming home. I know it sounds very cliche, very dramatic, but that first moment of clicking my heel back into the boot and that sound and just taking me back, it was so comforting, so exciting. And for me, I love speed and the exhilaration, it's something that really brought another side of me that I'd totally forgotten about for many years. And it's something I think so many people should try at least once. But again, speaking to many women our age, if they haven't skied before, there is a bit of caution, a bit of concern, I guess, about starting later on in life. So talk to us about that, about how you support women in starting or returning and what we could learn as potential first-timers. Sorry, long question. I was smiling so much. When we talk about skiing, when you talk about it, when I talk about it, you can't help smiling. And I hope that's coming across because almost despite what I do with helping people who are concerned about skiing or fearful aro around skiing, don't want anything to detract from the fact that it is an amazing experience in every way. It's got you emotionally, mentally, and physically. Visually, because there's the sights which are to die for. And that being out in nature, being out in the mountains, even if it's sunny, you know, that cool crispness, the smells, there is very little quite like it. And as you say, for people who are thinking that maybe they'd like to try it, there might be, especially in midlife, a lot of narratives around it that says, well, it's a super dangerous sport, you're gonna fall. Or, you know, imagine if you break your leg. And I think it does us such a disservice. It's almost such a trope. I mean, don't get me wrong, a lot of sport can have inherent risk. Of course it can. You're riding a horse, all of these things can have an inherent risk, and some of them do have slightly more risk attributed to them. But with tuition, like anything, it's a skill with preparation and with thinking about who you're going with and who you're going to be doing it with. I think we can have a really incredible experience skiing. And it doesn't have to fit that it's a really dangerous thing, and you should be sitting there bracing at the very thought of it and slightly, you know, clenching your teeth or shoulders all up thinking about any impending disaster this it might bring. It's an amazing experience. Whether you're returning after a break or starting again, having a little bit of nervousness about what to expect and what it might be like is totally normal. It would be the same if we were starting, you know, imagine going for a new job and it's your first day in the new job. It might feel a little bit bigger than that, but these are all natural feelings that we're having, entirely natural. And if we're doing it in midlife, there's a couple of things I think are more challenging. One of them is just what society says and what society shows us. And I think that is in skiing as well, dare I say the stereotype, the midlife lady who maybe is sitting at the cafe sitting it out. Yeah. The midlife lady who's doing the appreci, nothing wrong with apry ski, having a few drinks because, you know, it's all a bit of a lark and she's not actually wanting to ski. I saw a jumper, I just tell you about this jumper, I'd go off on a slight detour. I saw a jumper from a very well-known brand this year put out, and it was a ski jumper. And I always loved a ski themed jumper, but it was basically a middle-aged woman depicted on the front of the jumper in a massive snowplow. So think of like a pizza slice shape with the front of your tips of your skis touching, and the back out really wide, which is your stopping position, you snowplow. And it had that, and a glass of fooze in one hand and a bottle in the other, and it all looked slightly wild and crazy. And I thought, you know what, I still think that is one of the images and the stereotypes that confronts us. And I know from going back to have ski lessons and to train as a ski instruct various training courses I've attended over the years, or refreshers and things. I have found that often I am the oldest person in the group. I'm early 50s now. And on a few occasions, the default has been that you'll be at the back, or you'll be the last one to go, or you will be the last one in the group, sort of, or maybe the slowest. And I think that's almost a little bit of an assumed still female at a certain age, and I'm skiing, and some of that is what I would like to change a little bit within the industry. So we'll see. But I think we are battling a few of these stereotypes still, but it is an amazing sport. And if you get lessons, if you go with the right people, I keep coming back to this the social connection bit, the people you ski with, the people you have lessons from, this is a hell of a lot. It really does. It it impacts us on so many levels. And my approach to how I coach, it's a body-up approach. So I look at things very much from a nervous system standpoint and how we're wired on that level first, and then all the other levels like mindset go on top of that. From an evolutionary point of view, we're wired for connection and to belong, to find our people that want to do the stuff we want to do and will make us feel not pressured, not judged, they'll make us feel welcome, they'll make us feel wanted, and they'll make us feel part of something. And that is really important in then what we can get out of something like skiing or any sport or activity we do. That's so true. And actually, you've hit the nail on the head because when I returned, I usually have lessons. I will have lessons for maybe two or three days and then go out on my own on the end. And the instructors I have had have given me so much great tuition, but additional confidence, even though I am competent and quite able, but give me the confidence to try things I wouldn't do to go that bit further. And it then has enhanced and really improved that experience every time I go. And it very much on their personalities as well. But you also did say how you started that. What I found interesting is initially when they look at me and they can see I'm a little bit older, is they start off really slow, even though I've told them I can ski or I've skied before. And maybe that's part of how you teach, but they're very cautious and they start really slowly. Whereas I would have said, I went last year, so I'm not starting from scratch. And maybe it is something in the back of their mind, although all of my instructors have been male and quite a bit younger than me, except for one who was in his 60s. I didn't even think of it like that because I'm so focused on the lessons. I find skiing really interesting because I've gone through all the coaching and the teaching frameworks. I've learned how to teach somebody and how they teach that. And it's very much based on a traditional coaching framework. And these frameworks haven't changed much. They come from traditional business coaching. You know, business coaching got adapted to sports coaching, and then we layer on sports psychology, specific to that environment. I didn't realise that. But there's not a lot of variation on this stuff, really, that you know that's kind of how it's morphed. And then, but we've applied it specifically to what we're seeing on the mountain and the actual progressions you need to build those technical foundations. But it it's still a very linear progression. It's still very you start here and you go there, and you might then find an intermediate or somebody who's EB4 is at this level, so they don't need to do that bit, but you go up to the next bit. So it's very much linear, it's based on progression, and it's also based on technical performance. And that's how when I've done exams, that's how you're marked. You're marked on primarily technical performance. Have you met it? Can be as simple as you'll know this. If you're carving a turn, have you left two clean edges on the snow? And what I found through my coaching and what I write a lot about is that's great, but it didn't seem to reflect what I was experiencing as a middle-aged woman trying to come back to skiing at different points in my life. I've had breaks from skiing, I lived in Chamonix for three years, I've lived in various ski resorts, but I've always tried to come back to skiing. But as I got older and stuff has happened, it's gotten harder and some things have changed. So my technical progression hasn't been linear. And it's not just as a result of being older and perhaps not having the same stamina. I've I've had back surgery. So when I came back from back surgery and wanted to ski again, I don't get the same feedback from my feet from one of my legs as I did. So actually, things are a little bit off. I know that it might not look quite the same, but I know that. So it's not been a linear progression for me in that way. And when menopause hit, let's face it, one day I was sort of like I didn't know if I wanted to ski in a vest. And the next day I didn't know if I wanted sort of five layers and a heated Gilae, my thermoregulation was just out and my was just up and down. I couldn't quite work out what I wanted to ski, what my risk appetite was anymore. And it all just seemed in a state of flux. So I've had to work through all that to find what I want to ski and how I want to ski it. And it's changed. It's changed a lot over the years. And you can take that personal experience and share it as you coach people and share that with them and appreciate that. Absolutely. What I try to do mostly is give people some understanding of if they are feeling nervous or anxious or fearful, what's driving that. So it's a normal primitive state we've got. Our fear mechanism to protect ourselves is strong and it's an automatic system that's there in our nervous system. So I try to give a little bit of understanding about that so that we don't just constantly try to move on from it with, yeah, but I just need to get on with it. You know, I just need to push past that. So I come at it from that point of view. If you've had injury or time off for whatever reason, coming back to things can be different to how it looked before. And sometimes we're judging the 45, the 55-year-old us against a 25-year-old body image and or achievement level. And it's different. It can be different. So working out what you actually want it to look and feel like, because I'm very into the how does skiing make you feel, and how would you like it to feel, and how do you go about getting that, then that's what I'm really interested in. That layer underneath the technical stuff that we can learn and the mindset that we can layer on as well. I'm into the layer underneath that. When you talk about the mindset, I had a conversation really Really recently about that with somebody who is doing performance sport and has started later on in life, but had a history of doing a different type of sport to a very high level. And she was talking about how she manages navigating, being a beginner in something new, but yet knowing what she was capable of all those years ago and that standard. I find that really interesting. And you just mentioned that. Is there anything that you could share around that, other than being graceful with ourselves and being aware of it? Yeah, awareness and self-compassion. I also think there's some really honest conversations to be had with ourselves about what our motivations are and what we actually want. We're very good, I think, at verbalizing and intellectualizing things. So if I was to say, from a mindset point of view, people might say, Well, what's your why? You know, very traditional question. What's your why? Why do you want to do this? So we say, Well, you know, I really want to enjoy my skiing. Okay, great. So how do we get you there? Let's build that plan. And it goes from where you are now to future. I'm kind of interested in the stuff that probably goes before that. So the past as well as the present and future. When you say, I want to enjoy skiing again, when you tell me what your why is, I want us to be able to sit and feel what that is like in our bodies. So it's almost trying to just override what the brain is telling us is the answer. And I'm more interested in starting from a place where we get that somatic response, so that body-based response. So when you tell me that, let's sit with that for a moment and let's see if we can give some colour, some words to how that feels when you say those words. And I might reflect back what I'm seeing physically in that person if I'm coaching them. So, you know, I love skiing, but there's like a grimace of baricta screen, you know. I love skiing with my partner. I can't imagine skiing with a different person, the best person to ski with. And it transpires a couple of sessions later that actually maybe that's not the person that they want to ski with, and maybe there's people better suited to how you feel and how you want to ski. And those those are tough conversations. Yeah, do you know that's a really interesting one because the first time I went back skiing, I went with my brother. We had both skied at school, so he was up for it. He was like, Yeah, let's go. You know, also wanted to do it having had a break. Yeah. And I think it's fair to say he enjoyed the time, but it wasn't as enjoyable for him as it was for me. But just remembering how certain things I really wanted to try, and he was like, No, I'm good. I think that's really interesting because we had skied together at school. So we were probably both relying on those past memories of how we were in our teens to our experience this time around. Yeah. And he felt differently, did he? Yeah, he enjoyed it, but it was clear to see he did not enjoy it as much as I did. I think as well, you know, fitness plays into a lot of it because we both weren't particularly fit at that time. And again, that's something that I think is probably underestimated when people say if they're starting for the first time or returning, that thing of I'm just going to go back. But actually, you probably do need to establish a level of fitness. I'm speaking from personal experience. And again, now, all these years later, I haven't skied for the last two years, unfortunately, and I miss it so much. But I'm actually at my fittest now than I have been since I was a teenager, and I'm really intrigued to see what my experience will be like when I go back. Because the last time I skied, I was not fit, and I had to pause my lesson and sit down halfway down the mountain because I was just tired and needed a minute. And there was a bit of embarrassment around that because as I said that time the instructor was a lot younger, and I had to say to him, Can you give me a minute? I just need to let myself to continue. And now we're like, I could do it without stuff. Yeah, but well well done to you for saying, I just need a minute, because I mean, I've seen it so many people just keeping up or going down a run, they really didn't want to go down. You're halfway down a black mogul field, and you're thinking, don't even like moguls, and it's the last run of the day, and it's like day three. It's kind of like that halfway point, day three can be tricky. And it's like, why? How did I even get here? And why am I here right now? And then you know, all works out fine. But so many times there is so much going on when you're skiing. There is the speed, there's the environment, there's a new skill and the technical part of it, there's the conditions, there's other people, there's all the expectation around it. Whenever you're going on a ski holiday, it's going to be amazing. We're so lucky. Like the little pressure sort of mounting around you already, as well as excitement, because you've had great experiences and you've got memories of how amazing that felt. But for some people, especially as we hit that midlife, it can be a little inner voice saying, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do it like I used to be able to do it. And I'm quite worried about that. Will I be able to keep up with the grid? I'm a bit embarrassed. I don't really want to say that I don't like skiing with Dave. You know, he's always got the map in his hands, and I don't get a say in where we ski, and the group heads off before I can even say where I want to ski. There's a lot of stuff going on in skiing, and it's done at speed quite often. And a speed which we don't replicate in many areas of life day to day for many of us. Coming back to your point about fitness, it's really hard to come at a sport for most of us, especially if we're in the UK. We're getting maybe one, maybe two weeks skiing a year if we're super lucky. And for 50, 51 weeks of the year, we're not skiing. We're not ski training. So we've all seen the videos and we should need to do these exercises. There are loads of exercises you can do, which are standard strength and balance exercises, which will work wonders in skiing. But there is a physicality to it that does need mentioning. If you're a beginner, there's a lot of balance going on when you're sliding on a couple of planks if you're learning to ski. So there's slide and balance to be worked at. It can be quite tiring getting up off the snow if you're falling a bit while you're learning, which is perfectly natural. But there can be quite an exhausting time for some people if they're learning and getting down and getting up off the slope as well. And then you're managing all those external factors like crikey, am I holding the group up? Or am I learning fast enough? Am I doing it right? Surely I should be able to do this by now. So you can go through all of that skill acquisition stuff, which we all go through if we're learning something new. But it can feel a little bit much at times. So learning in little snackable sizes is great. Either maybe an indoor centre if you go and have some indoor lessons in the UK. First of all, making sure you're in a nice supportive group. If you already know each other and you go out and learn together, brilliant. That can be just a lovely learning environment, I think. Yeah, really nice. But there is a physicality to it. The speed, once you learn how to control it, that that's up to you. You can ski the runs you like and you can ski the speed you like and take breaks whenever you like. Yeah, exactly. So actually, what you're saying is as a midlife woman, it would be beneficial to have a level of fitness just to be able to manage those things that you discussed, the getting up, the getting down. So I guess it's core to an extent. Yeah, well, this is your speciality of strength and fitness training. Absolutely. So I would say to you then, what could you do to prepare yourself as a beginner fitness-wise? So I think there's the exercises which activate uh the leg and glute muscles, which are the things like squats and lunges. And obviously, if you're adding weights, midlife, that's going to be of benefit as well. We all know the benefits of strength training. But one of the big things I think are super important is balance, especially in mid-age, because estrogen impacts our procreception, so our balance signals and feet and ankles are super important for that. And also neck. And so I probably work on lots of stuff that we do in Pilates and in lots of standard exercise classes. So being able to go onto your toes and lowering, so all of the ankle movements, tandem stance, so one foot in front of the other if you're able to, and practicing that balance, a single leg balance. If you're into yoga, it's a tree stance and so on, but also adding things like closing your eyes, add a challenge to balance and proprioception. So you can do that if it's safe to do so. And turning your head, one of the big things I love to do is maybe we're just tandem stance. And then once you've got yourself in posture, can you rotate and look left? Can you rotate and look right? Can you then do that with your eyes closed? We start to layer on this stuff. The strength, the lunges, the squats, all of that stuff. There's loads of really imaginative stuff out there with gliders under your feet, think speed skating type stuff. That's amazing. And you can get heart rate going, you can do the CV stuff. But if you're going to start somewhere, for me, I would start with balance and pro-perception. Because as soon as you start moving on something, you need to be able to know and have those signals feeding back to you that you can balance because nothing will throw your confidence quicker, I think, than feeling like you're just unable to hold yourself in balance. So yeah, work on those pro-perception exercises. Yeah, that that's really good advice. And I just would never have thought of my neck until we get really sticky neck. And it's like, no, I really need that. It's that whole body sensation of skiing. And as you said, when people think about it and when they start, they can be very tense. And it's enabling yourself to be strong, but have that core strength, any strength, be able to relax at the same time. Yeah. It's so hard, isn't it? Because you're also cognitively you're learning a new skill. I mean, that's a lot of energy. So it it is hard, but yeah, the balance, the core, the strength, all of those things. The more of that stuff you can incorporate day to day. Think of it as ski fit if you like. But you know, if somebody's thinking about going skiing, just say yes and then work through it. But think about your resort choice and who you're going with and who you want to hang out with when you're skiing. And yeah, be comfortable in what you ski in and be comfortable with who you're skiing with. And do you know what? If you're in a lesson and you don't really get on with the instructor, if they're not quite doing it for you and giving you the right confidence signals, do you know what? Go and have a word with somebody and change. Change groups. We've invested a lot on many levels. If you're going on a ski holiday and having lessons, go and have a word and get something changed. Same with if you've got kit that's comfortable and you've hired kit, if your ski boots aren't fitting right, go back and change them. Do not get up and just get on with it because there's no reason why you should at all. And that's something I totally agree with. I had to do that in one of my trips where the boots were just too tight and they're supposed to be snug, but it became excruciating, and I had to change. And then I went a whole day and then I changed it, and the next day was like, Oh, it's fine. I was like, why didn't I do this at lunchtime? It's so hard, isn't it? Because you know they're meant to be, everyone says, Well, they're uncomfortable, and you've known they are, but you're not quite sure how uncomfortable until you start moving in in them. It's into the e-bindings, yeah. It's really hard to judge. It's like putting a new pair of shoes on, and you go, I think they're good, but I'm not sure if I could spend a whole day at work in them or whatever it is. Until you try them, you're not really sure. So yeah, go back and try. But you've got some lovely developments in ski boots recently with the boa. Have you come across the boa sort of tying? And basically, it's a continual piece of wire that goes instead of the buckle system that you get. Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a smart lace almost, but in wire that goes all the way up the boot. So the pressure around the boot is kind of uniform, so it sort of cumbacks you into your boot so you don't get those hot spots of pressure the same. So yeah, if you if you see those on the higher shelf, go for a pair of those. They're meant to be absolutely lovely and just another level in comfort. So that actually leads me to a really nice question before we start wrapping up. What is for you the most important or a couple of important pieces of clothing or ski gear that you couldn't live without and you would recommend a beginner has? You thought you were going to ski quite a bit and could do it, get ski boots fitted for you. Otherwise, hire boots and be prepared to go back. I would go for some really good gloves. Really, really good gloves that are gonna be warm depending on the time of year you're skiing and where you're going. Your hands being warm, you cannot underestimate how important that is. And you being warm. So gloves definitely hard to whittle it down. I'd I'd also say cellar pets or pants like trousers have a real thing about the logistics of trying to get in and out of either a pair of trousers with a belt, quite simple, a onesie, where you can't really pack the top layer into your rucksack if you get too hot, but they look great. Ski bibs, where basically you're wearing dungarees under four layers, probably in my case. And you just by the time you're trying to get to the loop, I mean you're just trying to work out how to extricate yourself from it all. So just have a think about what you know about yourself and what kit you might like to wear. And I would start with the trousers. So think about what you're wearing on your bottom. Think about your layers. But if you're gonna pay good money for something, gloves. So would you recommend the heated gloves or layers with a lining? I quite like a thin layer with a mitten. I'm all about mittens. I have got heated gloves as well, so it depends where I'm skiing and what I'm doing. But I would say start with layers. Heated gloves are super expensive as well and can be quite cumbersome, some of them sort of around the wrist, depending on where the battery is. So if you're going like Canada or something and it's going to be minus crazy degrees, you might well want heated, especially midlife if your thermal regulation is a bit up and down. Otherwise, really nice lining because it's thin and probably a mitten on top. I would suggest, but I've got heated vests, I've got heated socks, heated heated boots. Oh, and okay, you wouldn't have threatened heated socks existed. Oh well, I wear them for other stuff, you see. They're great for other stuff. So that's an investment. Oh my gosh. I mean, well, just got fed up with being miserable. Coal. And I've bought a lift glass. And I'm missing out total FOMO, really bad FOMO. So I just got with them. I thought I'm just gonna start comfortable and then work from there. Does that make so much sense? So thank you so much, Sarah. Before we wind up, I'm gonna ask you in a word or two, what does movement mean to you? Do you know what? I thought about this a little bit and I thought, what does it mean to me? I find it gives me massive confidence boost and a real hit of it gives me so many things. As I said earlier, I build most of what I do around constantly doing something, be it walking or sport, in little snack-sized portions, because I find it it grounds me, it makes me happy. It's not just the fitness benefits I get, it's all the other bits. And after having had back surgery and not been sure what movement would look like and feel like after that, I find it immensely gratifying that I can still do it. So for me, it's almost quite life-affirming. Definitely, you know, I can still do stuff. Thank you, Sarah. So before we go, where can we find out more about you? So got a website, flourishwell.coach. Otherwise, just pop in Sarah Gilbert so you'll find me through that. I hope for anyone that wants to give skiing a go, gives it a go. There's loads of indoor centres and there's lots of European destinations and it can be done reasonably inexpensively and in group formats and so on. So there's different ways to do it and experience it, but yeah, it is a thrill. Definitely. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thanks very much. Thanks for having me. If you came into this episode thinking skiing wasn't for you anymore, I hope you're leaving it thinking twice. Before you go, here are the things I'd love you to do with this conversation. One, if skiing is on your list, even the maybe one day list, start with balance work now. Single leg stands, tandem stance, head rotations. Do it with your eyes closed if you can. Your ankles, your feet, your neck. That's your foundation on the snow, and it costs you nothing to start today. Two, think about who you ski with. The people around you on that mountain shape your entire experience. If they're not the right fit, it's okay to change that. Three, if something isn't working, your boots, your instructor, your group, say something and change it. You've invested too much in money and courage to push through something that doesn't serve you. And actually, it's also a fantastic life reminder. And four, this is the one I keep coming back to. Ask yourself not can I do this, but how do I want this to feel? That question changes everything. Movement, as Sarah put it, is life-affirming. Not just for what it does to your body, but for what it tells you about yourself, that you still can, that you still want to, and that there is still so much ahead. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with a friend who needs to hear it. You never know whose life you might change with one simple share. If you enjoyed it, please take 30 seconds to leave a review. It helps more women find this show. And finally, come find us on Instagram at unshrinkable midlife moves. I'd love to see you there. Until next time, keep moving.